Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Vigilante Joe: Hero or Villain?

Just listen to the 911 tape of Joe Horn killing before, during and after killing two burglars in Texas and you're sure to see why it is generating such a controversy.

Here's a link to the audio http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5538780
Here's a link to a (partial) transcript: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926577/posts

61 year old Joe Horn was sitting alone in his home in Pasadena Texas during the afternoon of November 14th, 20o7 when he heard breaking glass in his neighbor's house and then saw two men burgularizing the neighbor's property. Joe's next move was to call 911 to try and get police to come and take care of the situation. The police didn't arrive in time though, and Joe went outside and shot and killed the burgulars.

The tape is ripe with evidence to support both sides of the debate on whether Joe was in the right or whether it was just premeditated murder.

Joe's friend and an attorney, Tom Lambright, is quoted as saying "He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do. He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."

Show your support for Joe-

Get Vigilante Joe t-shirts at http://www.vigilantejoe.com/

or support his cause at http://www.savetexasjoe.com/

Quotes from the 911 tape supporting Joe's side:

He was scared for his own safety- "I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with....Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

"I can't take a chance on gettin' killed over this, okay? I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot... I don't want to but if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell's going on, I mean, what choice am I going to have?"

The dispatcher tells him not to go outside and not to use his gun and Joe responds, "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it. And I have a right to protect myself. And a shotgun is a legal weapon. It's not an illegal weapon."

He believed that justice was on his side- "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

He didn't believe that the police were going to get there in time to defend him and resolve the situation- "Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya, I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this ----."

"--- dammit, they just stole something. I'm going out there, I'm sorry. I ain't gonna let them get away with this. They stole something... this ain't right, buddy." Dispatcher, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside with that gun." Joe, "you want to make a bet!"

"They got a bag of loot." When dispatch asks, "which way are they going?" Joe responds "I'm going outside and I'll find out." the dispatcher asks him not to but Joe comes back with the line "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

After the shooting he says, "I had no choice, they came in the front yard with me man!" Does this fact justify the shooting?

Crimefilenews.com summarizes the pro-Joe side pretty succinctly here:


The other side of the argument is that Joe went way over the line as far as premeditated murder. That he should have listened to the 911 dispatcher who said "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house. Don't be shooting nobody."

Joe says early on "I'm gonna kill 'em." So is he wrong to go outside given that he already knew the outcome of that situation? Or was he in the right because he rightly feared that his safety was at risk?

Other sites with info both for and against:
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKYpOENLyas&feature=related
Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5309288.html
Rackjite http://rackjite.com/archives/908-Local-Pasadena,-Texas-Hero-Joe-Horn-Kills-2-Unarmed-Hispanics.html
ABC: Activists protesting article http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5771154
ABC: Widow's side http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5766455

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eric said...

from what i can tell - it sounds like this guy has been waiting on his front porch for 20 years with a 12 gauge at his side waiting for the opportunity to shoot some bad guys. furthermore, it appears as though the robbers were not posing a threat to good ol joe in any way. in fact from the 911 conversation, it sounds like he was more distraught over the idea that these guys might get away before the cops got there, then he was scared for his life.

all that being said... screw em.

my sympathy for the robbers = Zero

If we had more americans out there watching each others backs people wouldn't be breaking into houses so blatantly in broad daylight.

These thieves were banking on the complacency that is far too common in our culture

Anonymous said...

This is same deal almost as Bernard Goetz who shot a group of teenagers who approached him unarmed but in a menacing way. Goetz had a justifiable degree of self-defense.He was in danger.But Horn was not in any physical danger.
If we really need Sharia law here,then so be it.But I do not think HDTV"s and other consumer junk is worth a human life.

Jeanne said...

Maybe Sean Taylor's family would have liked to have Joe Horn living next door to their loved one? Why isn't Quannel X or whatever local black "activist" outside his home? Oh, because the criminals were black? I thought activism was for all racially charged issues? Is not black on black crime a racial issue? Then how come we only see the "race game" being played when it's a white person, usually a police officer, trying to defend themselves against crime?

Jeanne said...

Maybe if criminals were scared to commit crimes, there would be less of them??? Who cares the race, if you are committing a crime, whatever happens to you during the crime is just too bad in my book. I am so sick of crime I could just puke - everywhere I go, I've got to watch my back, it makes you want to stay home and sit on the porch like one "eric" stated in his comment.

Obstructionist said...

Both guys had priors for drug offences and had Sean Taylor's girlfriend had shot any one of the four home invasion robbers, it wouldn't be about being racist!

A daylight robbery by perps. working on their next drug fix, could as easily murdered any one who got in their way.

If a black man had shot 2 white druggies, a court convicting a black man of the same offense would be accused of racism. Black on black, black on asian or black on hispanic would not be getting the same racism claims. Because Joe is white, he is guilty, by those more racist.

Look at the statistics of burglars that rob to support their fix and accept it, no matter what ethnicity they were, they committed suicide when they took on the risk of being caught in Texas! GOOD RIDDENS no matter who they are!

Obstructionist said...

In California a 13 year old black juvenile hits a 15 year old white child, not once with his baseball bat, but 3 times! The white child dies! The courts sentence the 13 year old to 2 years + in California Youth Authority. The parents of the convicted child scream the judge is a racist because they claim, there son was defending himself from words, no other witnesses heard. Between that first hit and second hit, the boy became a murderer with intent, fed by rage no doubt!

In that same city which is Palmdale, a 15 year old black student is cuffed and arrested from what began as a cake throwing incident. The black activist make a rush to judgement and build an entire case around a LIE that the school security guard broke the girls arm. ABC News broke the story about the lies of the injuries, but still the Southern Christian Leadership, Islamic Hope and Al Sharpton are holding to a lie and calling it the "Palmdale 4", trying to replicate the "Jena 6". Where was this so called Christian leadership when a white child was murdered in a reverse role? Throwing cake and resisting authority trumps murder of a white child any day.

One needs to look at DOJ crime statistics in America. Like black on black to understand where these activist have already failed to protect their own. Charles Steele of SCLC, Najee Ali of Project Islamic HOPE, Tony Muhamid, Al Sharpton and another dozen noteables that are experts at "race baiting", but failures at stopping black on black crimes in America. They will blame the ethnic white for all these crimes, but need to police their own first.

Sean Taylor is a statistical drop in the bucket of black on black crimes. Sean had wealth and the burglars wanted it. Race has little to do with the victims. Joe was unfortunately white and that will become his crime by activist that do not hold their own to equal standards!

Ashley said...

Property is not worth the lives of those two men. Listen to yourselves, you want criminals to pay for their actions but you don't want Joe Horn to have to pay for his actions. This man should be charged with murder. He could have peaceably stayed in his house and they would have likely left him alone. He said it before he even went outside on the tape that "I'm gonna kill them." That's pretty clear premeditation that he was going out there with the intent to stop these men with deadly force. He killed two people with a 12 gage shotgun from less than 15 feet away and he should have to be held accountable for his actions. Has our society really fallen so far that material possessions are worth more than human life?

roger said...

These guys deserve everything they got Vigilante Joe is a hero and needs to be honored and his name defended. These goddamn illegals needed to be taught a lesson, and they were.

eric said...


So now it appears these guys were illegal immigrants and at least one had previouly been deported for cocaine-related charges. These guys had repeatedly entered our country ilegally (most likely by simply walking across our southern border). They obviously have no respect for our justice system. They come here rob, shoot, steal, get deported come back and repeat.

The worst is that when they finally get what they deserve we get Quanell X(spokesman for the New Black Panther Party and convicted crack dealer) jumping in to incite riots, chant blackpower and claim the only reason this happened was because they were black. Turns out they weren't even black!?! If you are going to make this a race thing at least get your races right. Idiot.

The Man in the Black Pajamas said...

Joe Horn, Texas Murderer?

From what we can tell, Horn was not threatened by these people and he shot them with their backs to him. His use of force was disproportionate and not in self defense or the defense of another's property.

The problem is that Horn took the law into his own hands and we cannot have that in a civilized society.

Also, killing burglars is an imposition of a harsher sentence than they could have received under the rule of law.

If a police officer had done the exact same thing, he would be in jail for murder or manslaughter.

Finally, the criminal history or immigration status is completely irrelevant and has no bearing on whether Horn's use of force was reasonable.

Knuckles said...

Why does race keep getting brought up here? Race has nothing to do with it. Joe saw criminals breaking into his neighbor's house and then getting away with his stuff. The police weren't going to get there in time to have stopped them and they may have gotten away so he stopped them.

And if somehow the cops did catch them, they would sit in prison and we would have to pay for their healthcare and meals. So now, instead of us having to pay to keep criminals alive and well as a punishment, Joe gave them a real punishment. They can't ever burglarize anyone again and maybe other would-be burglars will think twice before breaking into a house.

Eripp said...

I know this is an old story, but it's new to me.

Joe Horn is a piece of shit who should have been indicted, and should be living the rest of his life in a jail cell.

I'm not mourning the loss of the scumbag thieves, but I am mourning the complete fucking idiocy of Texas justice.

Horn killed without cause, he's a shitbag who is no better than the criminals he killed.